for before this weeks lesson please
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1. Read Plato’s The Simile of the Cave. Sketch the cave as you read and write a 300 word synospis.
2. What do you understand by the term ‘real’? 100 words. Provide an example.
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Marc N
04/10/2009
Plato’s actual name was Aristocles, however during his studies he was often nicknamed ‘Plato’(meaning plane and wide) due to his broad shoulders and thereafter stuck.
Colon Capital O
04/10/2009
Where is Plato’s The Simile of the Cave?
mark
04/10/2009
well colon…..
I think Nick gave you a handout but if not or you weren’t there you could always try that thing they call the world wide web
in the empty box at the top of the internet broswer thingy type http://google.com
a new box will appear into which you can try typing plato’s cave
it says that there are 342,000 references to plato’s cave but that can’t be true can it? surely you would know more about it already if it was that popular
as ever wikipedia is a goof starting point and the original text is available on project gutenberg – it’s book VII of The Republic you want
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/1497/1497-h/1497-h.htm
enjoy!!
caroline
06/10/2009
1. Read Plato’s The Allegory of the Cave. Sketch the cave as you read and write a 300 word synopsis.
Plato’s Allegory of the Cave suggests that if presented with the appropriate sensory conditions, individuals can be deceived into believing and accepting something false (or limited) as being the truth, as long as these conditions cannot be contradicted or questioned in relation to other evidence, The prisoners in the cave knew no different than the information being provided and accepted the situation as fact, they did not question it. Once the option of escape was given to one prisoner, it is suggested that this new found freedom would not likely be initially embraced as it goes against the relative ‘comfort’ and security that the person had grown accustomed to all his life. The person would not believe this new truth of the world to be reality, wanting to return to what he insists is the real world [i.e. the cave].
If forced to remain in the ‘upper world’, a gradual acceptance of this new found truth would ensue, so that the person’s mind would eventually expand to understand what is real, and ultimately what is good. It goes on to suggest that if this newly ‘awakened’ individual was to return, note unwillingly, to the other prisoners in the cave they would laugh at his descriptions of truth and the world outside, and this may descend into outright murder to silence him – so accustomed have they grown to their situation.
The Allegory states that it is unlikely that once a person has been enlightened to the truth, such as the aforementioned prisoner, they would be unwilling to return back to their previous state of ignorance. It stresses the importance of educating the remaining misguided individuals by ‘turning their sight in the right direction’ of the truth. It is vital any person whom reaches the optimum knowledge of truth does not disregard their fellow citizens, but passes on this fulfilling sense of reality and being, unifying society.
2. What do you understand by the term ‘real’? 100 words. Provide an example.
What an individual considers to be ‘real’ is influenced by society and culture from birth. Certain aspects/artifacts of the world are collectively acknowledged to be ‘truth’ or ‘reality’, for example a car is identified and not disputed of being a car if it is physically in front of you and can be touched as a child. We gradually build up an accepted ideal mental image of what a car ’should’ look like and so do not need to see/touch a physical object in order to recall this.
If shown a car and then asked to describe details with regards to the physical attributes of this particular car, it is likely that individuals will differ in their recollection and embellish the description with their ideal image, convinced of what they saw, even though they were all shown the same ‘real’ car. Therefore I think that an individual’s cognitive functions can influence what is ‘real’ to that person, even if it contradicts the physical ‘evidence’.
Tim Lunn
06/10/2009
What do you understand by the term ‘real’? well what is real what is the diffent betwn real and not real I been think long and hard about this question well few thing that would make some think real is the way it moves and acts does it have a mind of own or it is just A.I. . Well I been playing the game gta4 whenever I crash my chater I come flying out the car while in other games nothing would happen also in earlier gta games whenever I hit someone in my car they would go flying into the air and then would normally just get back up but in gta4 they will side alone the floor and not get back up making this a lot more realistic but does it make it real no it is only A.I. it cannot think for itself it just been made to look real. ive post the other thing later
Basia Stramska
06/10/2009
Here’s my synopsis:
In the story Plato is describing a certain cave in which there are prisoners who have been there since birth. The are chained to a wall so that they can only see the back of the cave and not the light from the entrance.
Higher up and behind them there is a fire, kept lit by guards. Between the fire and the prisoners there is a path, which the guards walk along.The shadow of these guards carrying statues and animals is cast onto the back wall of the cave by the firelight. The prisoners below can only see the shadows of the guards and things they carry.Prisoners are guessing what shadow is next, because it is all they ever get to see.
Then, one man is released and brought up from the cave to where the fire is.
But he is unprepared for the reality. All that he believed is true turned out to be false. Light from the fire, daylight would blind him.
This prisoner has to watch the dark, which eventually becomes the man looking at shadows of people and items, he then will be able to look at reflections of reality in water, then the sky at night. Finally the man can look at the sun and daylight, and is able to acquire knowledge. He is then taken back to the cave and chained to the wall with his old prisoners. His eyes are unaccustomed to the dark so he is once again blinded.
The man tries to share the reality he saw with other prisoners, but they can’t accept it, as it is abstract and unreal for them.
Basia Stramska
06/10/2009
‘Real’ is a very problematic word , as it is very biased. I am even tempted to say there is not even one thing in this world that is real. If we say that something is real, just because we see it or can touch it, that doesn’t instantly mean we’re right. Everything we do and perceive is based on our previous life experience. For instance, if parents would convince their baby that what we call a green color is actually red, and pointed at a green table, it would be ‘real’ for the baby that this table is actually red. And if another person asked the baby about the color of this table, the baby would say it’s red, being convinced that his words are true. So ‘real’ for me represents the statement aiming at saying and describing what is true from our perspective.
There’s a beautiful movie I’ve seen lately, that is actually related somehow to this topic,’The Village’ by M. Night Shyamalan.
chn
06/10/2009
1. What do you understand by the term ‘real’?
I think real is what we see, what we feel and what we think.
What I think of something being real is through what I see and then again that goes back to feeling the thing you see so there is senses that helps you see the real thing or real in general. I was thinking that maybe the real it is not only what you see, it is through education or culture and maybe experience but I realised at the end it would go back to what we see. Using an example; for example if I have never been in some country but have heard a lot about how beautiful that country is, I know for fact that it is true and what that country is a real place but I could disagree if such place exists. So it goes back to what others see and say those are the real things.
2. The simile of the Cave by Plato.
I found it really interesting and in the mean time a bit hard for me to understand.
I was following his imaginations that he was saying and trying to doodle at the same time but I think I could more imagine and sketch the story in my mind than in the paper.
I did agree with all the examples he was giving.
I think what he was trying to mention more was that there must be more real things but we have not seen yet and I really agree with that, but again you never know if for sure there is more things in the world or out here in life to find and experience and see or feel.
When he said about the prisoners that they thought shadows were real yes it is true but then he said if they go back after experiencing more real things they would not like it, so he is not trying to say what is real or what is not real, I don’t think. He is saying there are more real things out there more than what we seeing.
I like how he explains that the eyes may be unsighted in two ways and through thinking then they will react to what they see. From darkness to light and from the light to darkness.
Silas
07/10/2009
100 words on what is real?
The definition of real has many meanings
Real: – being or occurring in fact or actuality, having verified existence: not illusory, real objects, real people not ghosts. Maybe even a film based on real life and not fiction or made up.
Real is a word used to describe the truth, not a lie or a false statement.
I think real is more evident when dealing with an older generation as opposed to children. When we’re younger, its hard to determine what is real as we’re not as experienced as our parents or teachers for example.
I feel as if when dealing with senses (phenomenlogy)it’s hard to distinguish between what is real and what is not- e.g when you have a bad dream, the experiences you go through seem real and are real whilst you are sleeping, it’s only when you wake up you realise it’s not real. But when dealing with the cognitive element of what is real or the truth, you know what is real and what isn’t so your mind isn’t as affected until the truth is unearthed.
Silas
07/10/2009
PLATO’S THE SIMILE OF THE CAVE- I had to read this twice in order to understand it fully.
Looking back at last year’s digital narrative module, the prologue stated that the story would be presented in the analogy of the line. I took this to being a linear chronology and for me to imagine it being in today’s time as it stated to replace the cave by the cinema and television.
I took the story to be part of an illusion Plato had conjured up in order to teach us and help us look outside the box, the box being the television.
The cave it seemed was more than just prison it was the world for the prisoners in it, who had been there since they were young children. Being tied up in the dark would make you your eyes weaker, but heighten your other senses due to not using your sight to it’s full potential, thus promoting your hearing levels and sense of smell.
The prisoners not being able to turn their heads to see each other and only seeing the shadows walking along the road and hearing the shadows talk. To have a reality like this would suggest that these prisoners weren’t intelligent or maybe couldn’t even speak, but I’m sure they learnt how to talk through the soldiers and learnt how to communicate with each other based on what they were seeing and hearing, this way of learning would push for them to want to learn even more, if the same thing was happening over and over again over the years, it could make them lazy and settle for what they know.
When the prisoner was taken to the upper world after being in darkness for so long, it was hard for him to grasp the light of the sun, since he was only used to the light of the fire, his eyes wouldn’t be able to focus and he wouldn’t be able to understand that the shadows he saw were real but not real at the same time.
He was taken from the darkness to the light and therefore had to learn to adapt to the different world from which he knew and learn more than he had done since he could now see the bigger picture.
If he were to return to the cave and describe what the real world was like, he would be seen as a madman and be cast out by the remaining prisoners, but wouldn’t persecute them due to him being more educated than them.
But because he had been exposed to the truth, he wouldn’t be able to handle living in the cave again and would want to bring the fellow prisoners to the truth/light.
Plato is basically pushing us to question whether we can be controlled or have an authority figure in our society who hasn’t seen the truth and come to the light, he’s pushing for us to come to know the truth so we can be even more educated than we are and therefore tell others the truth so it wouldn’t be lost.
Tim Lunn
07/10/2009
The simile of the Cave by Plato
This was very intersing to read I did also draw my cave I see the a cave as a jail that plato say that us human are suck in. I think he try to stay that we think that we are liveing but in some think fake not been liveing how we sould this is what Iam also think when he talk about the sladow on the wall also the fire this is also fake makeing up for the sunlight. He also talks about a road going over the cave this and that the pople in the cave I think this mean to be what is real to show these pople are near to this but most pople would not want to live in the real but live in the fake that is the cave.
mark
07/10/2009
Plato’s The Simile of the Cave synopsis ;
What I gathered from reading this very interesting dialogue, was that Plato, a follower of Socrates a greek philosopher was describing the way in which a life was for inhabitants of a prison, or cave as he writes. His descriptive lanuage is very precise in terms of the dialect used to explain mood and feeling and condition.
At times I found myself drifting from the idea of a cave and more into Plato’s use of descriptive language to express the events which took place in the dens to get a grasp of the scene. The cave had been described to have prisoners in them which were chained up in a way that allowed them no movement of there heads so i guess the actions by the prisoners described throughout the dialogue were based off habit rather than what they actually saw or thought they saw because what they actually saw were shadows of real action.
Understanding of the term ‘real’?
Real to one can mean unreal to another based on the difference of the situation but real can be based i guess from ones person experiences and cultural up bringing, as time proceeds alterations due to personal habits in ones life can alter realness. The real is the creator of all differences and possibilities.
Marc
07/10/2009
Plato’s Cave story was an interesting piece to argue what we see as real. I found it to be a great piece explaining how something that is ‘real’ to one society, isn’t ‘real’ in another. ‘Reality’ is an illusion which is determined by social groups, where they express things to be ‘real’ from what they have experienced as a society.
‘Reality’ is constructed of what each is told and see’s, therefore when you live in the middle of Siberia, ‘reality’ to you is herding reindeer and eating them to survive, traveling across miles of snow and not having a steady home. You will not understand the ‘reality’ of a city man, if you were to try and explain to them how you are able to go to a restaurant and eat cooked food and pay them, the Siberian will relate it to his reality and find it hard to understand. The Siberian would most likely picture you going in a tent and having somebody cook you some reindeer and you paying them back with labour, which is all that they would understand in their world to be ‘real’.
In the example of the prisoners in the cave, all they are given in life is the illusion of a path where shadows are shown of objects traveling up it. In the minds of these prisoners, they have no reason to doubt what they see, they were never given anything else in life, they see shadows of moving creatures, therefore there must be moving creatures. Then Plato explains how if you take a person who is accustomed to one way seeing and you take them to the dramatically opposite, that they wont be able to see whats ‘real’ at first, but that they will have to grow into it, same as a newborn does. Eventually the person would experience this new life and fit into it convincing himself that THIS was what was ‘real’ since it is whats before him and he can see it.
When the prisoner would be put back into his first home, he would once again not be able to see what is ‘real’ there an will have to adjust himself once again, he would once again have to fit into the society and start believing what is believed to be ‘real’ there. The person will be looked down on since the others will not have any understanding of anything other than the cave with the shadows, and all they will know is that their friend is currently unable to ‘see whats real’.
Goroth
10/10/2009
That is a very good theory and i agree. However if someone had there own look on life even wihin a structured culture that would adhear to a strict way of life. Couuld they not live by a reality that is open to them? even if no one else could see it? maybe that is one reason why a few people can become detatched from life? true hermits or geniuses lost in a world of strangers because no one else are able to see what they see. It doesnt nescisarily make them wrong does it? or if you met tarzan would you be scared or curious?